Oil leaking, but from where?!

[wpgfire]

So I removed both front and rear wheel today to go get E3's put on in the morning. I jacked up the front end like the manual said in order to get the front wheel off and left it in that position. Got the wheel off no problem, went to get a bite to eat, and when I came back (about 45 mins) I have a pool of oil on the floor leaking from somewhere at the rear of the engine. Is there a breather tube back there somewhere that the oil is running out of because I had it quite a bit higher in the front? Should I be more worried about this than I already am?

[Ed Z]

The only area I can think of that could leak as you stated would be the clutch slave cylinder... Check to see if the three bolts that hold it on are tight... If they are and it still leaks, then it may need rebuilding...

[Guest]

The only area I can think of that could leak as you stated would be the clutch slave cylinder... Check to see if the three bolts that hold it on are tight... If they are and it still leaks, then it may need rebuilding...

If it's leaking oil out of that area, overhauling the slave cylinder isn't going to help. There is an oil seal on the case side that the pushrod goes through, but you won't get that seal in a slave overhaul kit.
What I don't understand is, if you have the rear wheel off, shouldn't you have wide open spaces to pinpoint the exact location on the leak?

[wpgfire]

Bolts are tight. Slave cylinder has just been rebuilt by the PO. I lowered the front end and it's stopped leaking. Start it up and run it and no leak. Strange. And even with the rear wheel off there isn't much of the motor to see from the rear, with the swing arm assembly, tank, etc. blocking the view. Tomorrow I may just have to raise the front end again, see if it leaks and try to pinpoint the origin. And just when I was to the point where I was going to start putting it back together. New tires, added a hitch, new progressive shocks, timing belts, thermostat, rad hoses, rad flush and new fluid, fixed the cruise (micro switch AND vacuum line). Kinda takes the excitement out of it.

[Ed Z]

From what you stated and also from GL's comment, it just might be the seal on the slave cylinder that is leaking... As GL stated, that seal is not part of the cylinder rebuild kit... Not sure if it's part #13 or #14 that GL was refering to, but both a listed as oil seals...
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=146303&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1986&fveh=3444">http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_d ... &fveh=3444</a><!-- m -->

Another thought is to check the clutch cover bolts (the ones around the circumference)...

[Guest]

Part #13 would be the suspect seal. #14 isn't an oil seal. It is a grease seal for the lube you are suppose to use between the piston and the push rod. You may see this seal in rebuild kits, but it has nothing to do with oil or hydraulic fluid.

[wpgfire]

O.K., so I stood it on it's rear again and got under it and waited.... didn't have to wait long. Even though the bolts are tight it's leaking from the bottom of Part #5 right by the bottom. The sides of the cylinder stay dry but a drop develops right at the very bottom. Is there a gasket between the cylinder and the clutch cover? If there is it looks like the motor would have to be pulled to replace it. From the diagram it also looks like #5 is under pressure from the spring inside. Could I try releasing those bolts enough to allow me to get some liquid gasket in there and then tighten it up and cross my fingers? What other option(s) might there be, besides pulling the motor?

p.s. I just checked the online Clymer manual (p. 121) and it doesn't indicate any removal of the engine would be required to get at that cover. Maybe I just need to get it up on a jack to have a better vantage point from which to attack it.

[Guest]

Part #5 is the slave cylinder. If you're getting OIL from around that area, it's seal #13. You can remove the slave, but I'd take bets on replacing that seal in the bike. It's recessed in there pretty far.
Resealing the slave cylinder will prevent oil from leaking on the ground, but you take the risk of contaminating the square cut seal on the slave cylinder and possibly contaminating the hydraulic system.

[wpgfire]

GL, am I understanding you correctly; there should be no oil between the piston (#6) and the cover (#5)?

So let me ask a question of all you wrenchers: has anyone ever taken the slave cylinder out without pulling the engine?

I checked the Honda Service manual and all the diagrams show them doing it with the engine in place. I know, it sounds like I'm begging some one to tell me I don't have to pull the engine. Well, I am! Most frustrating part of this is that the whole thing was rebuilt only 70 miles ago by the P.O.. I've got the receipts from last Sept when he did them. He must have done something wrong.

[wpgfire]

Well, I took the time to do some research and discovered I can fix this without pulling the engine: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=10376&forum_id=1&highlight=ARRRRRRR!!!!">http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/vie ... RRRRRR!!!!</a><!-- m -->!

Sounds like bleeding that clutch will be a patience tester.

[Guest]

Cool your jets, Bennie. I don't want to burst your bubble, but..............removing the slave cylinder is not the same as replacing the seal at the back of the engine. It isn't too difficult to remove the slave cylinder, but patience is required. As far as replacing the seal goes..that may be an entirely different story. The seal sets into the back of the case in a cavity. How much room you'll have to work is questionable.
Not only do you have to get the old seal out...you have to install the new seal CORRECTLY. It may be necessary to remove the swing arm if you're not going to pull the engine.
Yes, Lawrence, the cavity between the slave and the back of the engine should be dry. Seal #13 is there to establish a barrier between the slave cylinder piston seal and the engine oil. Ever see what happens when someone mistakenly adds motor oil to the brake master?
It ain't pretty. It ain't cheap.

[wpgfire]

How's this? I found a thread on Steve's forum with the exact problem I have. Only problem is that the guy never posted how he resolved it. PM'ed him but no reply as yet. He even attached a picture that looks like he crawled under my bike to get. One suggestion I got from my father that I haven't had time to check but will do so tomorrow is to confirm it's oil leaking and not hydraulic fluid. I'm quite certain it's oil as the leak is almost non-existent when it's standing normally but leaks like a sieve when tilted on it's rear so the oil can work its way through. One step at a time.

[garyft]

I haven't looked closely, but judging from that picture it should be possible to remove the clutch cover without pulling the engine. That would make the seal considerably easier to replace.

[Guest]

I have not tried it yet, but I have read on this forum you can change the clutch plates without pulling the engine. To change the clutch plates you have to remove the cover the seal you have leaking is in.

Poorboy

[wpgfire]

It's oil. Clutch fluid tastes bitter, this doesn't. So in Clymers Manual on p. 122 (fig. 31) am I replacing #9, #11 or both (#13 & #14 in above link)? My understanding is that everything on the slave side of #11(#14) should be hydraulic fluid and everything on the clutch side of #11(#14) should be oil. Right? If so, then how is oil leaking from that spot? It doesn't taste like a mixture.

If GL is right, and I'm not doubting he is, does that seal come out when you remove the slave cylinder body? If not, how difficult will it be to reach in, remove and re-install as GL has pointed out? I may be as well just try to remove the clutch cover right off the bat.