Odessey won't start bike with headlight on.

[old gold]

I put a gel battery on the 1200 just over two years ago and now it won't start the cold bike if the head light is on. I have a digital volt meter on the bike and the volts drop below 10 when the key is on and the engine isn't running. The meter shows about 15 volts going down the road, so the stator is working. The bike starts fine when warm.

Suggestions?

[SIR tricky]

Very unusual for problems with an Odyssey PC 680

Disconnect the NEG cable and measure the voltage

CHARGING
The state of charge in an ODYSSEY battery can be determined from the following chart:
To get long life from the ODYSSEY battery, it is important that the battery is kept near full charge,
approximately 12.8 volts. If there are electrical loads during storage, then the negative battery cable
should be disconnected or an independent float charger used. Low power 2.0 amp chargers for storage
charge will keep a fully charged battery fully charged but cannot recharge if the ODYSSEY battery
becomes discharged.

Voltmeter Reading State of Charge
12.84 Volts or higher 100%
12.50 Volts 75%
12.18 Volts 50%
11.88 Volts 25%

[Scot Thompson]

Very unusual for problems with an Odyssey PC 680

Disconnect the NEG cable and measure the voltage

CHARGING
The state of charge in an ODYSSEY battery can be determined from the following chart:
To get long life from the ODYSSEY battery, it is important that the battery is kept near full charge,
approximately 12.8 volts. If there are electrical loads during storage, then the negative battery cable
should be disconnected or an independent float charger used. Low power 2.0 amp chargers for storage
charge will keep a fully charged battery fully charged but cannot recharge if the ODYSSEY battery
becomes discharged.

Voltmeter Reading State of Charge
12.84 Volts or higher 100%
12.50 Volts 75%
12.18 Volts 50%
11.88 Volts 25%

Hi Tricky, my experience with gel batteries has been sketchy at best. Mostly on cars - Optimus brand. They are slow to give up their power, and problematic to charge as you pointed out: won't accept a "standard" charger well and if they are not maintained at full charge, you'll think they have died. The absorbed glass material (AGM) batteries seem to have more promise and can be charged with a standard charger and do not suffer from the low state of charge issues the gels seem to have. I elected an AGM on the GL1200 when my "maintenance free" died last month.

[admin]

I put a gel battery on the 1200 just over two years ago and now it won't start the cold bike if the head light is on. I have a digital volt meter on the bike and the volts drop below 10 when the key is on and the engine isn't running. The meter shows about 15 volts going down the road, so the stator is working. The bike starts fine when warm.

Suggestions?

The headlight is supposed to be off when the 1200 is cranking. You might want to pull the starter switch apart and examine all the connections for correctness. I've worked on a couple where the switch contacts were bent, modified or damaged.

[1060dsl]

I fix fire alarms for a living and have been using AGM batteries for years. The manufacturers rate them as ten year batteries but we change them after five and I have seen them fail after two. Most common problem is the pressure relief valve plugs and causes the cells to swell. My (not so) Humble Opinion is battery technology has not kept pace.

If you are seeing a true 15 volts for anything more than a few minutes after cranking it over my guess is you have a bad cell, I use the SDI tester http://www.tclifesafety.com/sdi-cellchec...ester.html I would be concerned about over-taxing my stator after prolonged use at that rate,

[bs175dths]

15V down the road is too much. 14 and change is norm. The regulator may not be regulating the voltage going to the battery and may be slowly robbing your battery of longevity.

As was mentioned, the headlight should cycle off when the starter button is depressed, so trouble shooting the starter button is a great place to start. If trouble shooting doesn't solve the problem a break in the wire to the headlight (a toggle switch) may be a good temporary work around so the bike could be used while securing a fix.
Keep in mind, if the regulator isn't doing its job, there may be damage to some of the plastic plugs, wire insulation and the like throughout the wiring harness.
An inspection of the known electrical weaknesses of the GL1200 might be in order, and that should include the buildup of carbon dust in the starter motor.
I was having a starting problem, cold or hot motor, and the final fix was cleaning and repacking the grease in the nose section of the starter. I had very little carbon dust, but the grease was more like old Play-Do, barely pliable. I cleaned out the old, replaced with fresh grease and the starter was doing flips on the work bench when I bench tested.
That was 4 years and nearly 43,000 miles ago.

Bottom line is, when it comes to electrical, solving the obvious problem may not solve the cause.

Good Luck, be patient, but be thorough.

-Ride On

[SIR tricky]

Reading 15 v is meaning that the regulator is not seeing the correct voltage from the battery. When the voltage is over 14.2 it will also show up as as interference on the intercom (if you have one) which disappears when the brake is applied.

This mod (see attachment) will cure the problem (courtesy of a member of Steve Saunders Forum)

[Scot Thompson]

I assumed the Odessey was a gel battery because that was what was stated in the beginning of this thread. Having put my foot in my mouth, I looked at the battery spec and find it is an AGM battery. Much better choice, IMO. Still, the PC680 only offers 170 CCA which is not all that impressive. So, removing the red from my face....

15 VDC is high as has been pointed out. But it is the upper limit of the charging system output per the factory manual. Still, it is higher than one would want to see for very long and if it persists, it may indicate a weak cell or bad connections as has also been pointed out. It may be useful to take the battery out, assure it is fully charged and have it tested at any auto parts store. That should tell if the battery itself is having issues.

Also, on the headlight, simply pulling its fuse will take it out of the loop. While the headlight does, or should, go off when the starter button is pressed, the seconds the headlight burns before the starter is engaged can be sufficient to reduce "instant" battery voltage and reduce the available voltage need to get started.

[SIR tricky]

Myself and several others Vic included have used the Odyssey PC680 for several years. I have had absolutely no problems starting the engine. In fact a friend of mine, puts his bike to bed for the winter not even disconnecting the odyssey or putting it on trickle (He has an Interstate model) Spring time opens the tank petcock and the bike turns over and starts right up.

If your having problems and the battery reads 11.8v it should fire up without problems, your problem lies somewhere else.

BTW CCA of the pc680 is 220

Just in case you didnt read the attachment:

"There are a lot of threads about voltmeters that read incorrectly or batteries that are being overcharged by the regulator. There is a common denominator and a fix.

The voltmeter isn't connected to the battery, it's connected to the electrical system. System and battery values are different due to connections and line loss. The older the bike, the more prone it is to have a wider variance between system and battery. Some as much as 1.5 volts. It's okay if you're smart enough to add 1.5 volts to the voltmeter reading, but there is downside. It causes the regulator to overcharge the battery.

The regulator sees the same voltage as the meter. 1.5 volts less than actual battery voltage. So it kicks the voltage from a nominal 14.x to 15 volts or better. And that's too high. Most charging systems are regulated to 14.2-14.4.

Here's the fix.

Break the ignition wire to the regulator, use it to close a relay that provides power from the battery to the regulator. Now the regulator sees actual battery voltage and regulates correctly. The nice thing is, you've also provided a tap so the voltmeter reads the actual battery voltage as well.

[Scot Thompson]

Myself and several others Vic included have used the Odyssey PC680 for several years. I have had absolutely no problems starting the engine. In fact a friend of mine, puts his bike to bed for the winter not even disconnecting the odyssey or putting it on trickle (He has an Interstate model) Spring time opens the tank petcock and the bike turns over and starts right up.

If your having problems and the battery reads 11.8v it should fire up without problems, your problem lies somewhere else.

BTW CCA of the pc680 is 220

Just in case you didnt read the attachment:

"There are a lot of threads about voltmeters that read incorrectly or batteries that are being overcharged by the regulator. There is a common denominator and a fix.

The voltmeter isn't connected to the battery, it's connected to the electrical system. System and battery values are different due to connections and line loss. The older the bike, the more prone it is to have a wider variance between system and battery. Some as much as 1.5 volts. It's okay if you're smart enough to add 1.5 volts to the voltmeter reading, but there is downside. It causes the regulator to overcharge the battery.

The regulator sees the same voltage as the meter. 1.5 volts less than actual battery voltage. So it kicks the voltage from a nominal 14.x to 15 volts or better. And that's too high. Most charging systems are regulated to 14.2-14.4.

Here's the fix.

Break the ignition wire to the regulator, use it to close a relay that provides power from the battery to the regulator. Now the regulator sees actual battery voltage and regulates correctly. The nice thing is, you've also provided a tap so the voltmeter reads the actual battery voltage as well.

With respects to all in the conversation, I think that if there is a 1.5 voltage drop over the length of the ignition wire, there is something quite wrong. (1.5 X 30 A is 45 watts and that is a lot of heat, maybe enough to char insulation.) Using a relay is a great idea when powering things like lights, horns, etc. and it will certainly provide battery voltage to the regulator. Personally, I'd prefer to fix the problem and stick to the factory plan of providing sensor voltage to the regulator where it was designed to be sensed at the far side of the ignition switch. The risk of overcharging is the same on every car, truck and motorcycle we all drive...not very high I should think...provided all is in good shape.

[SIR tricky]

Its more like ,5v

For many years I and many others were plagued by interference in the headset which disappeared when applying the brake. I bought another Aspencade a couple of years ago and same thing. I installed a couple of driving lights and a volt meter, I noticed when the driving lights were off the voltmeter was reading 15v, and interferednce was present, I found when I turned the driving lights on of course the alternator wasn't capable of keeping up and the voltage would drop as soon as the voltmeter was reading in the range of 14.2 the interference quit. I used the black wire so the regulator was reading the true voltage at the battery 14.2 problem solved.
I later installed the external alternator. I suspect the onboard alternator is still good but the external is better.

[Scot Thompson]

Its more like ,5v

For many years I and many others were plagued by interference in the headset which disappeared when applying the brake. I bought another Aspencade a couple of years ago and same thing. I installed a couple of driving lights and a volt meter, I noticed when the driving lights were off the voltmeter was reading 15v, and interferednce was present, I found when I turned the driving lights on of course the alternator wasn't capable of keeping up and the voltage would drop as soon as the voltmeter was reading in the range of 14.2 the interference quit. I used the black wire so the regulator was reading the true voltage at the battery 14.2 problem solved.
I later installed the external alternator. I suspect the onboard alternator is still good but the external is better.

Tricky, did you figure out what caused the interference...noise, right? The factory alternator pumps out 360 watts always and power is used to run the bike and about 66 watts is consumed by the SCR in its rectifying function. What is not used is shunted to ground at a fairly high switching rate limited by the gate speed of the SCR. Perhaps when you ran the driving lights, their was no shunting because you used all the power available from the alternator and when you turned the big lights off, the R/R starting shunting and the noise you heard was the shunting function? That is a bit of a complex waveform because the R/R is actually shunting the 3 VAC legs from the stator? That's a question, because I cannot tell from the factory manual that doesn't define the SCR very well whether the shunt is of the AC voltage or after the rectification has taken place. It should be each of the 3 AC legs is shunted equally by time, especially since the Stator is floating relative to ground; but I don't know for sure on this bike. Scot

[SIR tricky]

quote

Perhaps when you ran the driving lights, their was no shunting because you used all the power available from the alternator and when you turned the big lights off, the R/R starting shunting and the noise you heard was the shunting function?

unquote

The noise in the headset as plagued many riders for a long time, There was a harness designed to prevent it, I did have one at one time, it didn't work too well.

Only when the regulator was reading the true battery voltage via the mod was when the noise quit. Other than that I had to keep switching the lights on and off as required.

[Scot Thompson]

Only when the regulator was reading the true battery voltage via the mod was when the noise quit. Other than that I had to keep switching the lights on and off as required.
[/quote]

Ever put a scope on it? You'd see the DC carrier and the noise as a superimposed wave. The wave will have characteristics that will indicate its source. I suspect the harness cure had a simple capacitance built in it to squelch or cap the noise below hearing threshold....obviously with little or inconsistent results.

Old stuff any more I imagine, and it hurts my head to think about this stuff anymore! Give me a bluetooth!