85 Aspencade Fuel issues

[MrShake]

Hello Gents,

I was out doing a few things on my Aspy getting ready to take it to a shop to have new tires put on.
This bike has a bit of hesitation when I hit the throttle anyway, but the problem seemed to get worse.

Here is the chain of events:

Got home from work
Used the onboard compressor to bump up the front and rear suspensions
Reattached the CB and Radio antennas
Pulled and checked the Airfilter and resinstalled
Started the bike, she was smoking a bit.. smelled rich.
Took the bike for a ride down the block
Less than a half mile she started to bog down.
Pulled into a parking lot just as she died.
Tried to keep her going, no luck
Pulled the airfilter hoping to lean it out a bit
With filter out, managed to limp home by opening the throttle WIDE open and feathering the clutch.
Took the 1/2 mile home at between 8 and 11 mph, as fast as the bike would go.
Back in garage, reinstalled air filter, adjusted idle and the bike seemed ok
Took it down block again, got less than 500 yards and the same problem popped back up

Thats it.. only other complicating factor would be the gas
Fuel gauge is not working, and because of that I thought the tank was empty
Took it to the gas station yesterday to fill, still had 1/2 a tank.
NO idea how old the gas is.. could be VERY VERY
Added about 1/2 a can of Seafoam before I filled the tank the rest of the way.
So, we have 1/2 tank of who-knows-how-old gas, 1/2 can of seafoam and 1/2 tank of fresh gas

Any thoughts?

[jawajohn]

A little more info please. How long has your aspy sat. And was there fuel in the carbs? Check your fuel filter , fp pressure and petcock. Mabye a stuck float. Tap your float bowels with the handle of a screwdriver. Keep us posted.

[MrShake]

to be honest, I'm not sure how long it had sat.

The previous owner had the bike for about 10 years, put a total of 700 miles on it. He thought the tank was empty.

I'm gonna pull the fuel line tommorow and see how it flows, probably replace the filter. I may also drain the entire tank and start with fresh gas.

[MrShake]

Oh... and the carbs had been completely redone within the last 2 years.... but was there gas in them? I dunno

[SIR tricky]

There is a controversy about a certain make of gas line filter (emgo) it seems that the filter is breaking away from the housing thus allowing unfiltered fuel into the carbs.
I bought my filters from JC Whitney but they weren't named so I removed it and cut the housing, the filter paper had broken away.
I used another type of gas line filter from NAPA )3011)

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I usually replace the fuel filter every two years, cheap insurance....

[MrShake]

Sounds like I'm headed to NAPA

My plan for tonight is to pull the fuel line and filter and drain the tank. Replace the filter (and maybe the lines) and add ALL new fresh fuel and seafoam.

I hope it works!

[bs175dths]

More info. Is needed:
‘got home from work’ had you taken the bike or had it been sitting? Is she cold? Is the weather cold?
‘started the bike, – was it difficult to start? Hard starting could smell rich once started.
Was smoking a bit – right pipe, left pipe, was it on the center stand or the side stand? What color smoke? Did the smoking go away before going down the block?
‘took the bike for a ride down the block, less than a half mile she started to bog down – gradually opening throttle or whacking it open? Choke on or off? Partially on? Smoking? What color? Did the smoke smell sweet?
‘pulled into parking lot just as she died – with or without choke? Was she dripping anything?
‘tried to keep her going, no luck’ – how did you try to keep her going?, slow throttle opening? Choke? With or without air filter?
‘back in garage, reinstalled air filter, adjusted idle – how did you adjust the idle? Increase or decrease idle?
‘and the bike seemed ok’ – it idled? Does it backfire? What happens when you slowly open the throttle? Does the idle go up smoothly or does it have flat spots?

Depending on how long the bike sat, it could be bad gas, obstructed petcock/fuel lines/fuel filter/fuel pump filter, dirty air and/or fuel filter, fuel pump not operating properly, throttle needles not sliding smoothly (not opening), vacuum leak(s), fuel needle valve stuck in closed position, float(s) stuck in ‘up’ position, brake(s) dragging. Could even be vacuum lock. If the gas cap breather hole is plugged, a vacuum will occur in the tank and restrict the flow of fuel.

Since you may have a fuel delivery problem, the fresh gas and sea foam won’t be able to get where they are needed.

I would start with making sure the brakes are not dragging. Then look into fuel delivery. Check for good flow between the fuel tank and the fuel pump. Next, does the fuel pump seem to be pumping a sufficient amount? Start the motor. How hard or easy did the motor start? Did it need choke? if the motor will idle, is it smooth or erratic? Again, is it with or without choke? When the throttle is opened s l o w l y! does the idle come up smoothly or erratic, or not at all? Try this with and without the choke. Visually check to see if the choke IS functioning.

You might get lucky and NOT have to clean the carburetors, but from what you have described, and for peace of mind, I think they need a good cleaning.

This is just a STARTING point and is certainly NOT meant to be the whole answer. But a marathon starts with a single step.

Good Luck.

Keep us posted.

-Ride On ~O)

[bs175dths]

another suggestion, go to the board index and read 'carbs and tuning'. boat loads of information in thar'.

-Ride On ~O)

[MrShake]

More info. Is needed:
‘got home from work’ had you taken the bike or had it been sitting? Is she cold? Is the weather cold?
Bike had been sitting since the nite before weather in the high 60s
‘started the bike, – was it difficult to start? Hard starting could smell rich once started.
Bike started on first push of the button
Was smoking a bit – right pipe, left pipe, was it on the center stand or the side stand? What color smoke? Did the smoking go away before going down the block?
Both Pipes, bike had been on center stand. Smoke was light gray, smoking stoped when I started down the street.
‘took the bike for a ride down the block, less than a half mile she started to bog down – gradually opening throttle or whacking it open? Choke on or off? Partially on? Smoking? What color? Did the smoke smell sweet?
Gradually opening throttle, did try quick open as it got worse. No smoke, Tried Choke on and off, same symptoms.
‘pulled into parking lot just as she died – with or without choke? Was she dripping anything?
without choke at this point, no dripping
‘tried to keep her going, no luck’ – how did you try to keep her going?, slow throttle opening? Choke? With or without air filter?
Tried slow and fast, with and without choke. Basically I was restarting the bike and trying everything I could think of to keep her running
‘back in garage, reinstalled air filter, adjusted idle – how did you adjust the idle? Increase or decrease idle?
I think at that point it was idling high and I adjusted it down. Was idling at about 1000rpm when done
‘and the bike seemed ok’ – it idled? Does it backfire? What happens when you slowly open the throttle? Does the idle go up smoothly or does it have flat spots?
It idled fine, was reving just fine. It does have a flat spot off idle. The flat spot is a little bigger than my experiance on my 76 gl1000. I suspect timing or a carb tune is needed... haven't gotten to that on the bike yet.

Depending on how long the bike sat, it could be bad gas, obstructed petcock/fuel lines/fuel filter/fuel pump filter, dirty air and/or fuel filter, fuel pump not operating properly, throttle needles not sliding smoothly (not opening), vacuum leak(s), fuel needle valve stuck in closed position, float(s) stuck in ‘up’ position, brake(s) dragging. Could even be vacuum lock. If the gas cap breather hole is plugged, a vacuum will occur in the tank and restrict the flow of fuel.

Since you may have a fuel delivery problem, the fresh gas and sea foam won’t be able to get where they are needed.

I would start with making sure the brakes are not dragging. Then look into fuel delivery. Check for good flow between the fuel tank and the fuel pump. Next, does the fuel pump seem to be pumping a sufficient amount? Start the motor. How hard or easy did the motor start? Did it need choke? if the motor will idle, is it smooth or erratic? Again, is it with or without choke? When the throttle is opened s l o w l y! does the idle come up smoothly or erratic, or not at all? Try this with and without the choke. Visually check to see if the choke IS functioning.

You might get lucky and NOT have to clean the carburetors, but from what you have described, and for peace of mind, I think they need a good cleaning.

This is just a STARTING point and is certainly NOT meant to be the whole answer. But a marathon starts with a single step.

Good Luck.

Keep us posted.

-Ride On ~O)

Well... the goal at this point is to get it rideable enough to get it to the shop for its new tires and brakes.... thanks for the advice!

[MrShake]

Quick update after tonight's work.

I pulled the lines and filter between the petcock and the pump.
I ran straight out from the petcock to a catch container and got good flow
I added the existing fuel filter and the flow slowed to almost nothing.
The existing filter is NOT oem..... it looks like a lawnmower filter, TINY
I stoped at NAPA on the way home so I had a new filter and line
I drained the tank, installed the new filter and line and refilled with fresh fuel.

She now runs down the road without bogging, though still not running "Well"
Lots of backfiring, lower speeds it surges quite a bit. And was smoking more now.
I also noticed a drip of DARK fluid when I pulled into the garage.
Looks like the fluid is comming from the exaust output on the head... not sure about that.
I'm not thinking its a good idea to take her down to the shop for tires until I get the drip/backfiring under control. I was hoping to avoid pulling those carbs until the dead of winter....... but its looking more and more like I need to do that.
I may try a sync / timing check first.

[MrShake]

I don't know if its necessarily relevant, but I did decided to take her down and get new rubber put on... Brand new E3s!

She actually rode pretty well back from the shop. In 3rd gear there was almost no surging and I don't think much smoke.

Still a drip from the exaust port on the head when I stopped... that smokes quite a bit.

My GUESS is that timing is off or something causing unburnt fuel to exit the exaust valve and drip on to the exaust... not sure for sure though. Busy time of the year with Deer season and other things in the way....

My next planned steps:
Pull and check plugs
Compression Test
Change Timing Belts


One question, are belts the only method of timing this bike or can I adjust/check the timing elsewhere?

[Guest]

You didn't mention which side it was dripping from? If left it could be the shift lever seal. Clean it up under there, carb or brake cleaner WHEN IT'S COOL. Then you can probably spot where the leak is.

[bs175dths]

The dark drip could be either oil or raw fuel. Both are easy to find, one is more dangerous than the other.
If raw fuel is seeping out, by all means, check the plugs. See who is firing and who is not. One way to test is with a device which measures heat, pointing it at each individual header pipe. If you are like me, and don't have access to such toys, try a spray bottle with water. Spray each header pipe noting who sizzles and who REALLY sizzles. Now check/clean/gap the plugs. If same results, try getting the seepage to move by moving one plug at a time. (could be a bad or irratically firing plug) Switch only the side you suspect and spritz the header pipes again, also looking for the seepage. If same results as always, try switching the coil high tension leads. (they can go bad with miles). If same results, try switching the coils ( this is more involved )
If you are able to get the seepage to move, it is one of the things you switched.
If seepage does not move and spritzing shows same cylinder weakness I would then suspect the carburetors given they have been sitting, possibley with gas in them, (now old gas) passing through a gas filter which was not made for the Goldwing, junk may be in those tiny, tiny primary jets or passages. Several Seafoam treated tanks of fuel may (and I say may) clear up the problem, or it may not. Patience may take care of the problem, but there are other items under the carburetors which could use some attention while the carbs are removed....there are vacumme and fuel lines under there as well as the air cut-off valve. A defective cut-off valve can cause back firing on decelleration. A vacumme leak can cause problems as well. So pulling the carbs may not be such a bad idea. While they are off, change the intake tube o-rings, another source of leakage.
Of course, before removing the carbs, a synch may be in order, just to see what is going on.

It couldn't hurt to look at the timing, but since timing would affect two cylinders, and your symptom is with only one, I don't think it is timing.
Also, read the section (s) that you think pertain to your situation. By doing so, may answer some questions and pose others. I also found it helpfull to take notes so I did not repeat a step.
Good Luck and keep us posted.

[MrShake]

The dark drip could be either oil or raw fuel. Both are easy to find, one is more dangerous than the other.
If raw fuel is seeping out, by all means, check the plugs. See who is firing and who is not. One way to test is with a device which measures heat, pointing it at each individual header pipe. If you are like me, and don't have access to such toys, try a spray bottle with water. Spray each header pipe noting who sizzles and who REALLY sizzles. Now check/clean/gap the plugs. If same results, try getting the seepage to move by moving one plug at a time. (could be a bad or irratically firing plug) Switch only the side you suspect and spritz the header pipes again, also looking for the seepage. If same results as always, try switching the coil high tension leads. (they can go bad with miles). If same results, try switching the coils ( this is more involved )
If you are able to get the seepage to move, it is one of the things you switched.
If seepage does not move and spritzing shows same cylinder weakness I would then suspect the carburetors given they have been sitting, possibley with gas in them, (now old gas) passing through a gas filter which was not made for the Goldwing, junk may be in those tiny, tiny primary jets or passages. Several Seafoam treated tanks of fuel may (and I say may) clear up the problem, or it may not. Patience may take care of the problem, but there are other items under the carburetors which could use some attention while the carbs are removed....there are vacumme and fuel lines under there as well as the air cut-off valve. A defective cut-off valve can cause back firing on decelleration. A vacumme leak can cause problems as well. So pulling the carbs may not be such a bad idea. While they are off, change the intake tube o-rings, another source of leakage.
Of course, before removing the carbs, a synch may be in order, just to see what is going on.

It couldn't hurt to look at the timing, but since timing would affect two cylinders, and your symptom is with only one, I don't think it is timing.
Also, read the section (s) that you think pertain to your situation. By doing so, may answer some questions and pose others. I also found it helpfull to take notes so I did not repeat a step.
Good Luck and keep us posted.

I like the idea of checking plugs/heat and seeing if I can get the problem to move!! Now all I gotta do is un-bury the bike from its winter resting spot... haha. That cold set in in Illinois and doesn't want to let go.