Ignition randomly dies... looking for experience

[Peter]

My Gold Wing has been running like a top all summer long... until today.

I started the bike this morning (no problems) to ride to work and while I was putting on my helmet it died like someone hit the kill switch. I thought that was rather odd, I hit the starter and she fired up again. I turned the bike around in the driveway and she died again but started up ... again... no problem. Now I was getting concerned. I checked the voltage, (I installed a meter), and she was charging nicely. Put her in gear and off I went... didn't get 3 blocks before she died again. Restarted and rode back home and parked her.

I am looking for input to help troubleshoot this.

My thoughts, not fuel related, no sputtering or hesitation... she just dies.
No odd engine sounds like clunking, grinding, or thumping so not mechanical.

This leaves the electrical. Clearly the bike is almost 30 years old and there might be just a bit of corrosion on a few contacts.

Years ago I hard wired all the connections relating to the stator and rectifier.

So I figure I am looking at a problem with either the CDI module or related wiring or possible ignition coils... but I can't see how both coils would die at the same time.

Does anyone know of a troubleshooting flow chart for the ignition system or has anyone made a connector to connector (battery to CDI) of the ignition system?

Any advice, comments, input, or humorous anecdotes would be appreciated.

[bs175dths]

Age and vibration can take its toll.
Have you replaced the 30A dog bone fuse housed behind the little plastic flap of the starter solenoid?
If not, the fix is to replace it with a weather tight, blade style 30A fuse. It is an easy upgrade.
When I replaced mine, I barely touched it and it turned to dust!
Another area to look is the ignition switch. It has an electrical plug plugged into the bottom of the key switch. With age and the miles, these have the ability to work themselves loose. It happened so frequently, Honda added a metal bracket to hold the electrical plug in place.
(Harley-Davidson did a similar fix with the regulator plug on the front of their motors until they redesigned the plug altogether.)
A bit deeper, but also a possibility is the pulse generators. Since there are two of them, these fall into the same category as the ignition coils, in that BOTH must fail for the bike to quit running. Check connectors for corrosion free and tight connections.
It is my understanding that the CDI unit is pretty stout and rarely fails, but anything is possible.

The bike turns off like a switch, so it is a major player…… a single point failure, not a pair of coils or a pair of pulse generators, but maybe their plug.
The bike turns off like a switch, no sputtering or nasty growls, so it is not fuel or rotating mass related.
The bike turns back on right away, so it doesn’t sound like heat related.

This is just off the top of my head and something for you to chew on.
Others will chime in soon.

Remember, electrical can be tricky (not SIR tricky) and so patience is a required tool.

Good Luck.

-Ride On

[Peter]

Question

Somewhere in the forum I found "how to's" for the wishbone fuse, which I need to do, and a wire bypass for the ignition or something like that. I now cannot find them.

Can someone give me a URL where I can find them?

[bs175dths]

done bone: (per SIR tricky)
http://www.gl1200goldwings.com/gl1200/sh...p?tid=9871

I am not sure about an ignition by-pass..... maybe someone else can shed some light.

Just for a sanity check, if you are not reading volts directly (through a relay) from the battery, measure your voltage at the battery and at the point you have your voltmeter and see if there is a difference.

Question: does the whole bike go dead, or is it just the engine which turns off?
If it is just the engine, that narrows the field: ignition switch, stop-run-stop switch, cdi, and their associated plugs

[Peter]

Thanks for the link.

Further to the path of the DC to the CDI module.

The way I read the schematics the path goes like this (from CDI to source)

-CDI to Black/White wire
-Black/White wire to Kill Switch
-Kill Switch to Black/Light Green wire
-Black/Light Green wire to Regulator/Rectifier Black wire
-Regulator/Rectifier Red wire(s) to Red/White wire
-Red/White wire to 30A fuse. (this I will be changing tonight)

It looks like the Regulator/Rectifier directly powers both the Ignition system and the fuel pump... is that correct?

Another question. The fuel pump relay is hooked up to power from the Rect/Reg on one side and and a Blue/Yellow wire from the CDI unit on the other.... why the CDI hook-up?

---

Posted my last comment before I read yours bs175dths.

I would have to say yes... I had the radio on and the ignition was all that seemed to shut down.

This still points to the 30a fuse as a possibility via the Red/White wire. Regardless, I am changing the fuse tonight.

[bs175dths]

You should really read the schematic from the power source to the working device and not the other way.

….. continue to follow that Black/White wire as it also goes back to the CDI….

according to the schematic, it sure looks like the Black on the Rect/Reg is supplying the power to the ignition system and the fuel pump relay.

I would guess the CDI is designed for many functions, one of which is to turn the power off to the fuel pump relay if the engine is not running.

Since the whole bike shuts down, that narrows the field even more.
Since the bike is down for the dog bone upgrade, make the time to inspect the plug under the key switch. Make sure it is firmly attached.

[90Blazer]

When the bike dies, does the lights go out, or does the engine just die? If the lights don't go out then it's not the dog bone or the ignition switch. It almost sounds like maybe the pulse generators are about to go. The CDI rarely go bad and yes, the CDI does tell the fuel pump to pulse. The chance of both coils going out at the same time is very slim. I've also seen the run/stop switch just barely off the run position cause a problem like this, don't ask me how I know lol. Just my .02

[Peter]

UPDATE

I installed the 30A link fuse just before I lost daylight. I soldered one side directly to the tab that connects to the positive terminal of the battery and the other side to the red and red-white wires. I also cleaned up the terminals though I will be replacing the 2 solenoid crimps tomorrow.

Bike started no problem. First thing I noticed was a higher voltage reading on my volt meter. (it is metering the fuse block). Voltage drops less from cruise to idle. Took the bike for a short spin with no issues.

Tomorrow, given time, I want to pull off the false gas tank and check a few more connections.

Question, I lost track of how the solenoid wires were connected. Looking at the solenoid from the left side of the bike is Yellow/Red on the left or the right (or does it even matter????)

[Peter]

Replaced the two terminals on the solenoid. One was cracked and barely hanging on and the other was working on a few strands of wire.

Replaced both and soldered the joint after I crimped.

I wanted to see what a new solenoid would cost and found a replacement on ebay, an aftermarket that has a modern bladed fuse as opposed to the link.

Check it out at http://r.ebay.com/zfhDS4.

[bs175dths]

... so are we all fixed and a runnin' good?

[Peter]

Running like a top.

I also found that ignition supply mode.

You basically bypass all the switches and wiring to the regulator/ignition by running a good 12v to a relay and having the relay switched by the wiring instead.

This ensures a good 12v source to ignition as opposed to going through all the harness connections and kill switch, etc.

I have not done this yet.

Currently (no pun intended) I am building a 555 timer to replace the turn signal relay. I want to go 100% LED but cannot without the relay going nuts. I have the circuit built and plan on installing it tomorrow. Flashes at a constant 90 per minute regardless of light load.

I'll make a new post about my endeavours.